ATVJ Apple TV 3.0 Postmortem

Posted October 29th, 2009 in Editorial by Eddie V.

You can get the official description here at Apple.com, you can get screen shots and reviews here, and here, but at ATVJ you’re going to get one users reaction….mine.

Lets begin with my overall reaction after using the 3.0 update for a few hours, and it’s one of being underwhelmed. Let’s start with the most obvious change, the interface. I feel as though Apple took a step backwards at the very least concerning aesthetics. For a company which prides itself on UI and UX excellence they must of thrown the interns on the Apple TV interface redo project. From a usability standpoint the new UI is probably easier to use, for instance moving the “My” menu selections to the top was a welcomed change, but I think Apple can take a few lessons about creative media player UI design from the creators of Boxee, Flex, and even Microsoft and the Zune Store.

Fine, so the interface isn’t all that, surely the new features make up for that right? Ehh, iTunes LP/Extras and Internet Radio, with Internet Radio not necessarily even being a new feature to the Apple TV. I suppose that if you were one of the lucky ones to have been chosen as iTunes LP/Extra upgrade worthy, or the 3.0 update inspired you to purchase an album or movie with the extra content, then the update was worth it. I on the other hand am still waiting for my notice to upgrade my version of Iron Man to view the extra content on my HD TV, so I will withhold judgement on that upgraded feature. Then there is Internet Radio. As I said before, this was available in the previous version of the Apple TV software by creating a playlist in iTunes, adding radio stations, and then syncing. It’s just a little easier to access now.

That pretty much sums up this 3.0 update for me. As I’ve read throughout the day, 3.0 just doesn’t feel worthy of the point update. Of course we are talking about the Apple TV, where any update is practically worthy of a party. I think Apple has larger plans for the Apple TV in some form or another, but I think their focus is elsewhere right now, which is why they keep the Apple TV limping along. So what do you think? Could Apple have rolled this out with a 2.5 update and left room for something bigger at 3.0? Lets hear what you have to say Apple TV Junkies of the world.

csearle

Unimpressed too. The whole re-jig is just an exercise in pushing iTunes content at you. Now I can't even use ATV without being forced to see the iTunes top sellers. Shameless!
http://www.echristopherclark.com E. Christopher Clark

I think the reaction to this, both from Apple TV lovers (here) and Apple TV haters (over at TUAW) is ridiculous. We've known that this is a hobby project for Apple all along. They've never said anything otherwise. So, my reaction to the update is based on this statement of yours: “…any update is practically worthy of a party.”

The addition of iTunes Extra and iTunes LP content is a huge deal, as it was a major oversight on Apple's part to have that stuff out there, stuff that's practically begging to be played on a big screen, and not have it be playable on their big screen TV device. The addition of being able to play Genius Mixes is also huge. And I actually don't mind the interface redesign, though I wish the cover art that showed at the top of screen changed to cover art from My Library when I switched over.

What I'm curious about is what you wanted/still want from an update. What is there really left for them to do?

Anyway, thanks for the great site. I really enjoy coming back here from time to time to read what my fellow Apple TV enthusiasts are thinking. I just think we all need to be thankful that our favorite product is still around and hasn't been discontinued altogether. Good things will continue to trickle in. Of that, I'm sure.
DaveK

This update is horrible — I stream all my media (over two t-bytes) and now every time I go to the main menu it stops the stream and I need to reload it for any section (movies, music, photos, etc). Found this is a widespread thing over on the macforums.

anyone else dealing with this and very unhappy about? this is almost like before they ever put the first update out with the original interface.
kenmarered

The update is more of a 2.5 than a 3.0. The itunes extra addition is welcome. As the proud owner of two ATVs, my biggest disappointment is that the interface hasn't changed more. It's so poor by Apple's standards. Really the only (interface) thing that changed was the intro screen and that is still flawed. It's no easier to browse for movies or shows other than the top 25 or what's featured. How can I find *all* of the new additions to the store? How can I find hidden gems I didn't already know about? How can I browse movies based on what I already liked? Apple has all of the data. From any other company this might be passable, but not Apple. I expect more. I will continue to use my ATV every day to stream content from my mac to my big screen – a job it does brilliantly. I just hope that 4.0 brings a more enjoyable user experience.
csearle

“What I'm curious about is what you wanted/still want from an update. What is there really left for them to do?”

I wasn't really after anything (apart from maybe EyeTV integration or genuine photo streaming!), I just didn't want Apple to hijack my main menu to plug their content. I've paid for my device I don't really want it now to be ad subsidised!!
TedH

Both excited and disappointed. Kind of disappointed for the same reasons everyone else has pointed out. Kind of excited to see that there are ANY signs of life at all for this product. My family owns 3 of these and we all absolutely love it. Yet we still can't browse all the movies in the catalog. What in the world is the point of browsing a list of titles that only goes A-D?

Forget the new UI, just give me a list of all the movies I can rent!
http://www.echristopherclark.com E. Christopher Clark

Well, that's a fair point. But didn't the 2.0 update put all of their content in the background of the main screen (behind the black navigation box)?

As for EyeTV integration or genuine photo streaming, I'm not sure what either of those would accomplish (I apologize for not being in the know about what EyeTV is or what genuine photo streaming might be). But I am curious.
dasman

Well what about a Web Browser..
Using an ipod for a remote and keyboard with a Safari browser would in my mind make sense of a 3,0 release.
EXpatSD

Wouldve been nice to allow the remote app on the iPhone/touch use the on screen keyboard as an apple tv keyboard.

Also, I stream everything and don't keep anything on the apple tv itself. It really doesn't do much for me to put the “my” folders at the top of the menus and then keep the shared folders on the bottom.

It would be nice to see a retroactive update of adding the iTunes extra content to all previously purchased movies.

I also hope apple is working on a subscription based model with the networks where you pay about five bucks a network per month and you get to stream I like it was on cable, you can record anything but you're able to watch shows in real-time. I think that would tie in nicely withthe iTunes purchase model.

Lastly I really like this website, however, I would enjoy more articles regarding the apple tv besides the movie updates. It seems the web really lacks a central apple tv website. I hate having to check tuaw, apple tv hacks and apple tv junkie everyday.

End rant. On to 3.5!
EXpatSD

That should read you can't record anything.

Also, it would be sweet if they had an area showing when certain upcoming movies would be available on the apple tv so you could see what was coming.
adaptable1

My wife tried to rent a movie last night (for the first time in a year) and some how choose to upgrade the ATV. It hasn't worked since. I'll spend a few minutes trying to fix it this morning.

We got a LD390 Blu-ray player with Netflix and Vudu streaming (1080p on the latter), and it has worked flawlessly. It can also play ripped DVDs as VOBs/Mpeg or MP4s right off a DLNA enabled PC. We paid less for it than the our 160MB ATV…. which has been relegated as primarily a streamer for things in my iTunes library.

Regardless of the user interface, Apple has been out tech'd on this device. They need a technology refresh. Vudu provides a better experience with streaming rather than downloading…. and the HD previews don't buffer half way through the way the ATV does.
csearle

No, in 2.0 the background image was wherever you had last navigated (ie usually my own content).

EyeTV is just a TV tuner really with great Mac software for turning your mac into a PVR. It'll never happen on ATV though as Apple obviously want you to buy their content not record it for free.

As for 'genuine photo streaming' I meant the ability to stream it from an external hard disk instead of the 'faux' streaming the ATV employs whereby you actually have to sync your photos to it first (unless I have missed something somewhere along the line), kind of defeats the object of streaming.
Maullar

You need a better internet connection. I can watch HD Previews on the lowest internet plan by my ISP. No buffering. HD Movies start in about a minute or so. SD movies are ready in a couple of seconds. I'll choose ATV over Vudu or Bluray any day.
yodamac

Remember, you can sync AND stream photos. I sync my iTunes account with just a couple of songs and pictures – all my other iTunes content is streamed. We then Stream our entire photo library on my wife's itunes account (we share an iPhoto library). Apple TV sees the Synced computer and the Streamed sources separately, but it's all there in the end.
YodaMac

Well, they've changed the “point” number every time they've updated the look of the interface if I remember correctly. So that's why this is 3.0.

I like the new opening menu, but wish they could continue it as you drill down deeper somewhat. I'm glad they moved the “My Content” items back to the top of the menu for what its worth.

Internet radio is great, and easier now – so thats a plus.

I don't have any LP or DVD Extras content yet, so I can't comment there. Still waiting for a good choice in HD (with extras) to purchase one…

Besides watching our own ripped DVDs, my main use is watching video podcasts. I like that you can watch them without having to download and save them.

The main AppleTV feature I'm waiting for is TV show season rentals. I don't want to own them, just pay a minimal fee to watch them. Of course, the 24-hour limit has to go already!
csearle

All my content is from the one Mac mini so I either have to 'pair' or 'share' my library. If I share it to stream photos then all my other content is only available in the 'shared' sections for each item as well. Is there a way to stream photos from a paired library? As a side note the shared content is not appearing in the line of images at the top of the main menu in 3.0. All very untidy!!
csearle

Actually, maybe I'll try setting up a separate user account on the Mini and have iTunes open in each, one syncing content and one streaming. Thanks for the idea yodamac I'll try that later…
adaptable1

Really? How come 1080p previews stream just fine from Vudo and Netflix HD streams near-instantly on the same connection? All of my devices are wired to a 10Mbit TWC premium connection. Something is wrong with the Apple infrastructure, IMO.
yodamac

Yes. That is exactly our setup. One Mac Mini – two accounts. We each have our separate iTunes libraries of our own music, but we share an iPhoto library for all our photos. So My account is synced (paired) and her account is streamed (shared).

All my movies and music are under “My Music…etc.), and all hers are under “Shared”. Thats also where we can view our entire iPhoto library – streamed.
Clay

To me, it looks like they are getting ready for more content. With the new menus it looks pretty empty a lot of the time. I don't know if I want a web browser for my TV, but I think some innovative apps might be pretty cool.

I also like the season pass for the TV shows. I absolutely love watching TV shows in my AppleTV. My wife watches Biggest Loser and not having commercials saves us about 20 – 25 minutes for an hour long show. I also use it for getting HBO TV shows such as #1 Ladies Detective Agency. I could never pay a monthly fee for cable, dish or HBO for that matter, but paying two or three dollars for the shows to me is well worth the expense.
Jay

Sadly I an finding streaming was a real afterthought for them. If you keep your media on a separate drive, you need to suffer an long (even on Ethernet) loading screen.

Also the pushing of stuff to buy rent across the screen is really tacky. You need to hack parental controls to get rid of that, if not your 5 year old gets to see horror DVD covers or other inapproprate stuff randomly appear.

Basically a total failure. I'm going back to the lackluster but more reliable older version . Really disappointed! Apple is missing a real opportunity. Very unlike them.
csearle

Tried it, works great, thanks yodamac!
CHASH

Quite a lot of the negative feedback seems pretty whiny to me. It's more about what personal expectations and product dreams haven't been fulfilled by the update than actual evaluations of what's been provided…

But it seems to me that Apple is trying to accomplish two distinct things with 3.0. The first is to make Apple TV work with the iTunes Extras and LP stuff. Dual purposes are at work here. My guess is that Apple (Jobs) is just trying to complete the shoring-up the the long-standing weakness of digital content not providing the venerable album graphics and liner notes, and leveraging the power of the platform… Of course, the content providers just see it as an opportunity to get customers to buy the same thing over and over again – jaded, but true IMO… I mean, why do you think they incessantly re-release optical content, other than to twiddle with the encryption? The second Apple purpose was to make the Apple TV menus more effective with the Remote app on iPhone and iPod touch, which I think they achieved. Apple finally takes advantage of the display being 16×9 (wide) rather than 9×16, thank you very much…

Insofar as the complaints about putting movie covers (et al) on top, that's simply eye candy, and marketing flourish. I have no comment on the parental control aspect, although I would be surprised if Apple displayed anything particularly risqué here. But it seems to me that complaining about Apple shamelessly prostituting the top content on top, rather than hidden? — oh, boo-hoo — gimme a break…
jay

Yup. Same issue. It's like streaming is an afterthought. This upgrade is just about getting people to rent movies. It's a hack in all other ways.
Jay

I just sent this to Apple's feedback, for what it's worth:

After waiting so long, I was extremely pleased to see this update. That said, as a 20 year Apple enthusiast, this is the worst release of software I have yet seen. Here is why:

MY SET-UP: I have a massive digital media library (all MP4, MP3 and JPEG administered through iTunes and iPhoto). This is all stored on a drive hooked up to my time capsule via ethernet. All Apple products except drive (Drobo). iTunes and iPhoto on a MacBook Pro running Snow Leopard.

1) On previous releases, you would only have to load your media once (you get the pinwheel icon while the it says “loading”). Now, you need to do that separately for Movies, TV and Music. Worse, if you go from Movies to TV, then back to Movies, you need to load AGAIN! This is painfully slow.

2) Album art loads more slowly than ever, if at all.

3) While you have devoted a large amount of screen real estate to the purchase and rental of media via iTunes, you have forgotten something very important… WE DO NOT ALL WANT ITEMS PUSHED TO US TO BUY.

This is especially troublesome if you have young children. Right off the bat, the Movie section you pushed had a horror title with disturbing images (for a pre-schooler) on one of the covers, and the music section had a cover with BITCH in large purple type.

Note that using parental controls to HIDE this content should have turned off these titles from appearing, and it did seem to initially (leaving half the screen now empty and useless), but it came back. I used the Parental controls to restrict everything, and it still showed the content I didn't want.

Even if this is a bug, we should have the option of turning off the iTunes Store push content. We did spend a lot of money for the AppleTV just to stream.

SUMMARY: I am going to go back to the older software. The UI, the problems listed above, and the general handling of this release seriously makes me want to look for another media server option.

I know this is a “hobby” for Apple, but don't release substandard software that appears hacked by second-teir designers and developers. You are better than that, and your loyal users deserve better.

I hope you read this.
csearle

Ahh, we'll see if you think its whiny when Apple re-layout the home screen of your iPhone or iPod Touch to force their content on you!
NatTheGooner

I really pleased with the update.
The best “feature” is that the menu responds much quicker now – is it running on Snow Leopard?
Internet radio is fine, iTunes extras is OK but I'd rather had a visualizer like iTunes.

I hope they never add a web browser to ATV, thats just trying to turn it into a computer – even with the amazing Wii remote its still a pain to type in text on the TV. The last thing I want is a keyboard on the sofa -uuurgh!

Its just needs 1080p playback for iMove exports and DVD playback for iDVD projects.

I think the Apple TV is fantastic – got in last night, nothing much on TV, a few minutes later we rented a great movie (Dan In The Real World)
Right now downstairs there some music playing from the ATV through the Hi-Fi and I just love the fact that it doesn't have a noisy fan in it – genius bit of design – must have been a Hi-Fi fan on the development team, when you play a full fat .AIFF album it sounds beautiful – no background fan noise to spoil the effect – I bet no other “media box” has that touch of class.

It does so much and it does it so well – I love it!
csearle

Well said, let's hope they listen.
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